(00:00): Hi, friend. Today I am sitting with one of my dear friends and coaching clients, Dani Sumner from A HOLY MESS Podcast. And we're talking about shame. We're talking about the past, how anxiety, about the future, how traumas from our past these beliefs that the world embeds in us from such a young age, really keep us stuck. How they keep us from fulfilling God's plan for our future and Dani and I really dig deep.

(00:30): So we totally are giving you, guys, kind of a heads up that we do touch on some touchy subjects today that might come up for you, some trigger warnings around things that might cause shame or anxiety or things from the past, little t, big T trauma stuff. So if any of that is gonna be a trigger for you, or you have little ears in the car, please do be aware and discerning over that and just be mindful of when you listen to today's episode.

(01:00): But I do think you have to listen to today's episode because shame is a success stealer and all these lies that the enemy so carefully orchestrates in order to keep us stuck, once we bring awareness to them, once we bring them to light, once we walk through them and take God's hand in really that restoration process, we have healing, we experience this beautiful blessing and favor that's on the other side of these really perceived breakdowns and this perceived pain not to minimize it, cuz it is painful, but it's part of the growth process, perseverance is part of that process.

(01:44): So I can't wait to dig into this content with you guys today. It's gonna be so fantastic. And I wanna just tell you a little bit about my guest today, Dani Sumner. She is a mom, she is married. She has two teen kids and two, mini Australian shepherds, Lulu and Coco. And she's also a stepmom to her hubby's older kids. And really at the end of the day, she truly believes that there's hope beyond our brokenness.

(02:12): Dani spent decades with gnarly anxiety, insecurities, depression. She felt like she was barely alive. She felt like life was so overwhelming. And there was an awakening in her spirit. There was a true come to Jesus moment or two or three and now nearly 11 years sober. Dani has found herself so grateful for her life and now her story. She wants you to know that you don't have to do it alone. She believes you can live a full emotional and spiritual life, no matter what your circumstances are. And guys she's super funny and sassy. So buckle up y'all are gonna love this conversation.

(04:21): What's up Dani? Welcome to the show, my friend.

(04:25): Yay. Hi, Stef. I love you.

(04:28): I love you too. You guys heard about Dani in the intro, but she's just one of my faves. Dani's been coaching with me for a really long time. We were recounting how it went down on her podcast just a little bit ago. And I was saying how fun it was. Dani popped into my DMs one day and she's like, so I think that I'm gonna work with you and do this thing. And then so like maybe we could work together. And what do you think? And then like two seconds later, I had another message, Hi, it's me again. So I had another idea. I had another thought and then like another one came in like five seconds later and this continued and I was like, I immediately fell in love with her personality cuz there is like you get Dani and you get 100% of her and she is so authentic and real. And she's just one of the funnest people on the planet. I truly enjoy every single time I hang out with you.

(05:14): Oh man. That's awesome. What a compliment! I have so much fun and you've imparted so much of me and honestly you've kept this train on the tracks girl. So thank you.

(05:22): Oh, it's been so much fun. Tell us your story, Dani, cuz through that there's gonna be so many lessons, us visual people over here, to pull from to really kind of transpose that so that we can understand it more deeply.

(05:34): So I mean, I don't know where to start. So childhood wise and I became a Christian, my junior year in high school, which was an incredible experience to experience the love and the grace of God. I grew up and not really experiencing the understanding the paradigm of that. I mean, I knew there was a God. I actually remember being like literally suicidal at four years old because of some stuff that had happened in my life. Realizing that and looking down at a window and just being like, should I jump, will this hurt? Or will I actually die? Cuz I wanna go to heaven. Like I wanna be done. And so it's been like this process for me, but I always knew there was a God I knew it was planted in my heart. And scripture says It's planted in the heart of man.

(06:10): Yes.

(06:11): I believe that wholeheartedly. No one runs from Jesus. People run from Jesus' followers. People had bad experiences with church or, and I think we've all had bad experiences with church or with Christians or human beings. But for some reason when it's a church hurt, it kind of goes deeper. And I don't know why. I don't know if it's our expectations. It should be different. I don't know what that is. I don't have the answer for that, but I just know my experience has been one that I knew in my heart I had, I wanted to help humanity and I've always enjoyed meeting with people and hearing their stories before I could even tell my own story. I loved hearing people's stories and I just carried shame. And I mean, I carried all this crap my whole life.

(06:52): And I remember when I, so I got married, have a godly Christian husband, all that sort of stuff, but I was still kinda hiding and I was still struggling with shame and anxiety and just all. And I bought into the world's lie that, that the world tells us when we're a Christian, that everything should be fine. You accept Jesus, you should have joy. What's wrong with you? So I was piling it on cuz I had postpartum depression after I had my kid and I was like, well, something's wrong with me, I'm doing something wrong. And it wasn't until I really hit my bottom where I felt like I really started to encounter God's love and its grace and his understanding. And He began to implant empathy in me for myself. I had it for you, Stef Gass.

(07:30): Oh my gosh. Like I listened to your story and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have such compassion for you, but it's really hard to hold the mirror and have compassion for myself.But that's been my journey where God has been bringing me all these years and, I've almost 12 years sober and through recovery ministry and doing speaking at retreats and that sort like encountering people's stories, it's holy ground. And so the more I share my story, the more I share parts of my story, the more I can connect with people on a very human level, the more it heals me and the holy spirit uses each other. Galatians 6:2 Carry one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. What's the law of Christ? To love one another to care for one another. Let's just keep it real. It's Jesus. But He uses people and He uses His word.

(08:20): When you talk about, go back into your story for a minute, Dani, the 12 years sober,

(08:26): Woohoo. By the grace of God.

(08:29): Go backwards, before that. Go back to like, what were the shame causes?

(08:35): Oh my gosh. Regret. I mean, I had so much regret from choices that I had made. So just, crazy stuff in adolescence. And I had had sexual abuse stuff and trauma that I don't know how to say it, but if shame was brought upon me with through that and then not understanding it and not even remembering it clearly. Cause like I have flashbacks and that sort of thing. So then kind of like, am I crazy? Did that really happen? And oh my gosh. And then the choices. And I believe the more specific we are when we're dealing with our stuff, like if we really wanna find healing, like the devil's in the details, like find somebody close to you that you can share the nitty gritty details with, right? Like James 5:16, confess your sins to one another so that you may be healed.

(09:18): And when I began kind of touch sharing some of that shame and one of the big things that kind of held me captive was I've had an affair with a married man and it broke my heart. I mean, it just, it sent all this shame going through my body and through my heart and through my mind and the decision that I had made and I can, we can go into all the details and, but it brought such like condemnation in my own heart and mind, even though I had been forgiven by the Lord, I had been forgiven the gentleman's wife and ex-wife and all that sort of thing, like we had had, we'd made peace about it. And, and then she had shared about how the broken marriage, all this stuff. But that really, it had an effect upon me.

(09:58): It had an effect upon my life. It had an effect upon business decisions. Gary and I, my hubby, we had invested in some things and I was often a tangent with alcoholism. So I had literally squandered away our like our, not our inheritance, we worked for it, but it was an inheritance from God. But I had squandered away some of our retirement and all of that, a lot of it. And I was lost because I was like grasping at straws to find that inner piece that was gone. I didn't have it. And until I could sit down and begin to unpack these things and all the while I had this passion to serve people into of what I felt like God was calling me to do, but I couldn't do it. Cause I was so angsty. I was so angry. I was grieving. Some of these things were grievous losses of decisions that we've made. We can't go back and fix.

(10:45): And things that were done to you.

(10:47): Oh my gosh. Yes.

(10:50): And the why I wanted you to share specifically is because everyone listening, I think sometimes we put away the crap. Maybe if I don't talk about it, maybe if I don't label it, then it has no more power over me, but it's actually the opposite.

(11:04): So true.

(11:05): Dani put, and I wanted her to put this out there for you to see like you are not alone.

(11:10): Amen.

(11:10): And that's why I talk a lot about, and my things that I walked through are a lot different than what Dani walked through, but I mean, pain is pain. What you'll notice is that Dani's stuff has a lot to do with her calling. And my stuff has a lot to do with my calling. So Dani had gone through a lot of things that were very, very painful in your childhood. And that had a lot of inner healing work that you had to do, which is now literally what your calling is.

(11:32): Totally.

(11:33): And so what

(11:34): Well, and I was just gonna say, if you don't mind me adding, when someone's been through traumatic childhood events, you guys, it alters our minds. And so to be able to go back and nurture those younger places in us and not to sit in victimhood our whole lives. Cause I think I don't even call myself like I'm a survivor or I'm an overcomer, anything like that. No, I'm Dani and Jesus is walking me through this healing and it's beautiful. And does it come up? Yes. But I have permission to process it and to deal with it. And just because it happened doesn't mean I was forsaken or forgotten, but I've had to wrestle with God. Like God has very thick skin. If you've been sexually abused or any major trauma or a parent lost or I lost my uncle to suicide and he was like a father to me.

(12:17): That was very traumatic in my life. And a lot of self pity and cuz sometimes self pity. I mean, it's actually that works for us. All of these things actually work for us, for us to find ourselves. Because we can begin to like, I'm worthy, I should have more. And you guys, we were created for the garden of Eden. We all should have more. Bottom line, we all should have more. We should have that peace and that joy, but things are robbed from us. And choices that we make robbed from us as well. And so if we can come to a place of resting in Jesus and allowing him to heal us and to put these pieces back together and to tell us no shame, like I promise you, you will not be covered in shame. You can walk free. And then you can go create the business you wanna do. But we gotta deal with our stuff. It's just otherwise bare it under the rug. I tell people you're gonna trip over the rug and break your nose.

(13:08): Yeah. And if you're like me, shame is not even an emotion that I had even labeled in my life more than six months ago. And so define that. How do you know if you're feeling shame? How do you know? Cause the stuff that we all walk through, it's like, yeah, yeah, that happened. But I'm over it. Maybe you really think you're over it. But yet your life seems to just not feel full of peace. There's something holding you in bondage and you're afraid to look in the box.

(13:37): Totally. I love that.

(13:38): So what is that shame? What does it feel like? How do you identify it?

(13:41): Well, you brought up two points and I wanna talk on both. I think that fundamentally there's really just a few core things that we as human beings deal with and it's the human struggle. Being human is a struggle. And so shame, I believe can manifest itself in a lot of ways. And honestly you don't know it's shame till you start unpacking it. The things that you don't wanna share, that's shame. So the secrets, and shame can be linked with grief too, because grief and grief is this new concept in my life where it's not just when someone dies do you grieve. We grieve losses. We grieve choices that we made. We grieve the path that we have to go on because of choice. I grieve that alcohol became such an idol in my life. I grieve that season, but then I can look back at it now and see, okay, it's also taught me a lot. Cuz if I didn't go through this suffering, whether it's self-inflicted or someone else inflicted it on me, I wouldn't have had the experience or the depth of conversation or the empathy that I now have. So to go back fundamentally, how do we know if it's shame, you're only as sick as your secrets and I believe shame wants to hide. So anything that is feels and even talking right now. You get that little gut feeling, you get that anxiety.

(14:50): You know immediately, you might immediately what they are too.

(14:54): And you can bargain with yourself, no, no that's not shame. That's just modesty. Well great. Be modest with 99% of people. Be super open and vulnerable with at least one human being. Because Jesus

(15:06): God, He already knows.

(15:07): He already knows. Well, and that's sometimes we deny, we aren't completely open with God, cuz we're nervous about it too. And that's a whole other like, okay, let's deal with, what's the deeper issue. Why you have this distance with God, cuz sometimes our God distance, that gap has nothing to do with Jesus or God. It has to do with how man told us about how God was for our father experience or so it's complicated, but it's beautiful too, you guys, And it's not, I think people are scared to deal with shame or anxiety or shame or grief because they think they're gonna get be buried by it. When the reality is when you actually begin to unpack it, it's like that letting the air out of the balloon, it goes away. I mean, honestly, things still come up. But not as much.

(15:50): And it's not as big as you think it was. And so what's interesting about this conversation is when you say you're only as sick as your secrets and shame is things you don't wanna share. And then the third one is it could be something that you're grieving, for me, completely giving up alcohol three years ago or whatever it was. And then now having all these issues around it, I don't wanna be around it. I don't wanna be around people that drink. I have all these issues around, oh my husband wants to have a beer, immediately have an issue. It's like trigger. And so I was in the car with my step dad this weekend and he's like, you know, I think you're just ashamed of, or you're embarrassed or ashamed of how you used to be with alcohol. And so you're carrying it a little bit forward. And I was like, hi, therapist. What's happening right now? And then I totally was, oh my gosh, I'm carrying all this shame around my past alcohol. Whoa. I didn't even know that it totally was a bag on my back. I didn't even know. And now that I know the bag is there, I don't wanna carry the bag. I don't want the bag, but I didn't even know the bag was there. And so I think that's interesting for those of you who are not emotion people or you've been taught to just avoid the box, look away. You're carrying a lot of bags on your back, but maybe you don't even know. Some of you may know and you're scared to let it go. You're the one going, I can't tell anybody. You can let the bag go and those of you going, but do I have a bag? And that's where, when I really looked at, what are the things that I'm maybe grieving in? Or what are the things that I don't wanna share? That's a really good indication of, what bags are you still carrying?

(17:29): That's so good. And some of us wanna set up camp in the bag and be cozy in our self-loathing and just let me just hate myself. It's easier just to hate myself. It's easier to just crucify myself. I know Jesus died for me, but please I need to die for me too. It's like, and Jesus is like, oh honey, come on. Let's go. Everything that we've done is healing, climb out of the bag. Doesn't matter where you've been or what you've done. And you guys shame, it's pervasive and it's so personal to us. And you might be thinking, gosh, I don't have shame like that. I don't know why I feel shame. I didn't have an affair with a married man. Why would I have shame?

(18:05): It's like, no, no, no, no shame is shame. That's the enemy's lie. We all feel, we're all graded on a curve. It all feels the same. So it doesn't matter how bad, shame is pervasive and so is anxiety and it can be overwhelming, our emotions and also it makes us numb. There's some of us that put things in a box, cuz we're numb and we don't know how to deal with it when we really do. But yet we have outbursts of anger and we're really sad or we're really frustrated. Or we struggle with envy. Holy moly. If you struggle with envy, that's a huge indicator of shame because someone has something that you deserve. But you think you're disqualified and this is all unconscious stuff. You guys, if we were conscious about it, we wouldn't have so many issues.

(18:44): But as we become conscious, then we can begin to heal and it's beautiful. And then all of a sudden this thing that's been this huge deal is all of a sudden, like I don't even need to tell anybody. I'm fine. Jesus healed me. And it's beautiful and it's magnificent. But, these unconscious things, these unconscious narratives, we don't even know we hate ourselves. I remember I was journaling one time and I hated journaling so, I'm not gonna tell anybody to journal, but I love it now. And they were like what do you think about yourself? And I remember it unpacked some things where I was like, oh my gosh, who is writing this? Is there a demon in me? What is wrong? And it's like, these are all things that we can unpack. It's not for condemnation. It's for curious, compassion to heal. It's to heal us.

(19:24): So get curious about the healing. Get curious about the bags on your back. And you've talked about a lot of clues for you to start digging into what bags are on your back. So looking at all those quote, unquote negative, but maybe they're not negative. Maybe they're just little exclamation points in your life of, Ooh, that's what I do. Cause sometimes I'll feel MB creep in. Why? And I'll look at that and I'll do the things and I'll deal with the things. But that came with practice and the deeper rooted stuff for me, that's all new, cuz it was like put it in the box and you walk away and you're just fine. So look in there, really take a look at all those little pieces. And then this question of like loving yourself.

(20:06): I remember I was in, I have a spiritual growth mentor and she's amazing. And she prays with me and we do all the great things and stretches me and challenges me to grow and to really do this kind of stuff. Anyway, and she asked me this question of, do you love yourself even if, and there was some ifs, it was like, even if you know your business failed. And even if we stripped every, all these questions and she's like, I want you to say it. I want you to say I love myself even when. And like I could not say it.

(20:36): Wow.

(20:37): And I'm like, what? I love myself. This is dumb. I was so annoyed. I was like, this is so dumb right now.

(20:42): I love you, Stef. Oh, I love you. I love how real you are. Thank you.

(20:46): I'm all angry in the therapy. And so, but after, there was a lot of questions and things that I had to really look at and there was some things in the box that I, again didn't know that I was carrying around. And I did love myself, but there were some things in the way. And so I wanted talk about that, Dani.

(21:04): So good.

(21:05): I've identified some of the crap in the bag. So whatever that is for you guys listening, and I want you to know, like Dani mentioned there's little t trauma, there's big T trauma, there's little dumb stuff. I'll get envious of a friend of mine doing something that I'm not doing. And I'm like, okay, little mini bag that's trying to be on my back right now. I'm just gonna pick you off. Your bag can vary in size. It doesn't mean that it makes it less hard to bear. And also, I feel, Dani, that once you allow one bag to sit on your back, you start allowing other bags to come on because now you're like, oh, I'm a bag carrier so put this here. So I've almost taken this notion of the second a bag even starts getting filled near me in my vicinity, I'm gonna light that up. I'm not gonna be here for that. So what do we do? Let's talk about this process. Cuz when you start carrying bags, you're too heavy to walk into the call. You can't get through the door. You're too heavy. You can't love well, you can't be the hands and feet of Christ when you're carrying all these bags of shame and, and crap. Like talk to us about that process.

(22:12): No, totally. And resentment and bitterness and all of these things that weigh us down. Just feel 'em in your body, pause and be like, when is resentment ever helped you? When is bitterness? When is envy ever helped you? What's gonna actually help me find some healing. And I believe you hit on a couple things, loving ourselves and finding self forgiveness. And I wanna talk about this for a moment cuz there is a lie. I believe in the Christian community that if we love ourselves, it can be like, we're gonna turn narcissistic and be very grandiose. If you're worried you're gonna become narcissistic, you are not a narcissistic. Congratulations. But if God created you with a purpose and you're His masterpiece, His DNA is all within you. Wow. That's actually a concept. And our DNA is in God. Holy Moly. Let's go that way.

(23:04): Let's do it.

(23:05): It's to find that freedom and to be able to face these things and to be able to forgive ourselves. And it's always, I mean, and this is like 10 years of therapy, whatever, but figuring out the deeper roots of why. We all wanna beat ourselves up for the envy, but okay, well why is it there? Well, maybe something was stolen from you on the playground when third grade and it's just traumatized you or who knows? But it's about acknowledging it so that we can walk free from it. And to be able to put the bags down and these bags, you're righ, they cause this dis-ease. Is dis-ease within ourselves. And we pick up these bags too, because, and then we get used to carrying them and then all of a sudden we're like, no, this is how it's supposed to feel.

(23:44): Well, no, hold on. There are ways to walk in freedom and to walk and joy and to walk in peace and that's not minimizing anyone's whatever they are walking through. And if, they're walking through big things with grief or loss or trauma or who knows, divorce. I mean, there's so much stuff that affect us. But if we can just walk free and know that there is a divine purpose for your life, God loves you and He has something for you and to rest and, and to unpack that stuff.

(24:12): Yeah. So four things, you said one, to find the deeper root to start looking for that. Get curious about it. Acknowledge it. Number two, to love yourself through that healing process. And I've done this when it comes to business, but I'm like, if you don't love yourself right now in this moment, God give me the new eyes to begin to love myself.

(24:36): You're right. Cuz some people might be like, I can't love myself, this lady's crazy. Well, then let's not argue with the word. Can you find some compassion? Loving kindness leads to repentance. If you have something that you hate about yourself, some behavior, let's say you're short with your children or you are short with your husband or you're a procrastinator. You hate yourself because you procrastinated starting this podcast. Get curious. What is the inhibitor? Figure out what are the roadblocks? And then bring someone else in on the process to help unpack it. And I will say, bring someone who, if you're a believer in Jesus, bring a believer in. Bring somebody who's spirit led. Go with your, the paradigm that which you want to live your life with.

(25:19): That's really good. I love that. So loving yourself. And if you can't, starting with compassion, that's so great. And having curiosity about it to find the inhibitor. I think that was so key that you just said that cause, even for Dani, we were here she's coaching with me. She knew what the podcast was about. She had the vision for the show and then she'd go, but I'm not ready, but I can't. But maybe next month. And what was that, Dani? Did you ever find what was the inhibitor of you pressing publish?

(25:47): Yeah, for sure. There was a ton, but I think ultimately, the inhibitor, last fall, before I hit publish, was I had to deal with this business failure that I had caused for my family and I back in 2008 and we've been very safe since then. We've had our insurance agency, it's been great and lucrative and all of that stuff. And, but I had, am I just taking another risk? Is this just another shiny ball attic decision? And I had counsel, I mean, I had you and I had good counsel in my life that were saying, no, no, this is actually what God is calling you to do. And so sometimes acknowledging the inhibitor and then trusting the people that God has brought into your life to help you make the next decision because you, guys, sometimes we're so we're in fight, flight or freeze.

(26:30): We're in such anxiety, we can't make a decision so we make no decision. And that is making a decision. Inactivity is an action of no action. Stef talks about that. And so to be able to trust the people, and that's where Stef, I mean, you've been, oh my gosh, a godsend, literally I tell people God literally dropped Stef Gass on my doorstep. It was like, I'm going, I'm all in. And you know how much I trust and love you and the impact that you've had and my life and my purpose and just helping and Stef was in my heart. It was already written, you helped me unpack it. And you helped me be like, eh, that's a shiny ball, shut up. Let's go.

(27:08): We're going a different direction. And it was like, oh my gosh and it worked every time, your direction. And you're like a ninja with that. Can I tell you a scripture? I was praying this morning about this podcast. And can I tell you a scripture that I felt like, is you that God uses. All right. So in Jeremiah, I won't give you the background of it, but it's from Jeremiah 6 and it says Jeremiah 6:16, Stand at the crossroads and look, ask for the ancient path, ask where the good way is and walk in it. And you will find rest for your souls. You guys, Stef, I believe that you were empowered by God to walk with us, to figure out our path and by figuring out our path and actually walking in, it gives us rest for our souls. And it's just such a gift you are to all of us. Anyways, I love you, Stef.

(27:53): Thank you, Dani! And how prophetic that we just talked about the path on your podcast, not even an hour ago. God's so fun, isn't He?

(28:02): I know, He is.

(28:03): And also one of my favorite verses is, This is the way, walk in it, Isaiah 30:21. So how fun that verse you see for me is walk in it. It is true that God has this beautiful path. And I think part of carrying the bags is part of the purpose. Dani going through all those hard things she went through, she could have kept carrying the bags and hitchhiking her way forward, all this weight. Or she could have shed the bags, brought them to life and then used what was in the bags to free other people of their bags. And that's exactly what she's doing.

(28:34): When we carry those bags too, we medicate, they're too heavy. I'm telling you, my knee hurts. My gut hurts. That's why I drank. I drank because it made life easier for a minute. And you know, I binged on Netflix because I got to escape. It's these escapes. And it's like, just be curious if you are escaping, no condemnation, just be curious, what is it you're escaping from? And then you can make decisions on how to move forward.

(29:00): You know what's interesting about that? And I wonder if this is true for you. When I was going through carrying all those bags, the business idolatry and drinking and all the weird shamy, weird things, I was definitely binging Netflix. That's when I had my biggest social addiction. That's when I was super addicted to my phone. That's when I was drinking too much, eating and self-medicating with food. But if I look at my life now that I've really let go of, truly like 99%, when a bag comes, I throw it off. And sometimes I'll realize there's a bag there, cuz you're never gonna be completely free. They're gonna creep back in cuz you're human. And we're just humans going, walking through this, but I don't do any of any of those things anymore.

(29:43): I probably drink a little too much coffee, but that's about it. I'm not binging the things, I'm not eating the way I was. I don't drink anymore like that. My life is free. I'm free from all of these weird, self medication bandaids I was trying to put on, on top of the bags. That's never gonna work.

(30:05): Totally.

(30:05): So I love this curiosity question because why? Why am I doing this? What am I afraid of? And I think it's hard to find that answer. If you have any advice here, cuz I know when I started getting asked these questions, I couldn't really find it. And this people had to really dig at me to be like, but why? But what? I don't know. I was so resistant to finding the root, how do you actually get there so that you can walk free?

(30:37): It's scary because we think the root is going to bury us. We think it's quick sand. And if we actually acknowledge, and this is all unconscious, you guys, you have to understand. Again, it's not always a conscious decision to avoid this stuff. But if we can change our paradigm and change the glasses we have on to look at those bags as actual gifts, Jesus is saying, you're struggling with anxiety right now, but it's gonna turn into a gift. And that might sound crazy to somebody who struggles with panic attacks. But as someone who has struggled with panic attacks, regularly throughout my whole life, it's an indicator for me of like when I'm overextended. If we can begin to not curse the hard things in our life, not curse the bags that we're carrying and look at them as gifts and invitations, to find more peace and to find more empathy and to walk even with the limp.

(31:25): I have a mentor who says, don't trust anybody without a limp, somebody who... it's just those bags they cause things within us. And if we can look at those as beautiful ways where you guys, you may never come, you may never share, if you were sexually abused or some major trauma like that, you may never share it publicly. And I'm not advocating, everybody's gonna tell their whole story. And I don't always share it that often. So I'm actually hilariously surprised with myself about how much I shared on this podcast. But the reality is, and I'm not afraid of it. It's just, I don't use it unless I feel like it's gonna minister to someone. But the reality is when we share, we become more free and we can find empathy for ourselves. And I believe that's what Jesus is after.

(32:08): He just wants us to have this great understanding for our human brokenness. So we can have understanding for others. There's enough hatred in this world. We are called to love. We are called to have compassion and grace and we only judge things we don't understand. So even if we're judging other people and other people's choices, we don't know the whole story. Talk to somebody, talk to somebody opposite of what you believe. And you will find, if you hear their story and they're honest, you'll find compassion. You may not agree. You may not all those things, but if you can find that compassion and that's where Jesus lives, I believe in the compassion and the love. And it's the holy Spirit's job to change us. We are not supposed to change ourselves. This is not about white knuckling it, this is about resting in Jesus.

(32:50): So He plants the seeds, He waters it. He grows it. We just show up, literally we just commit to show up and be tenacious and say, Jesus, plant that resilience, you know, Psalm 51, Oh God renew in me my steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your holy spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, like grant me a willing spirit to even look at these things. And if you can't have compassion for yourself, oh, that's curious. Don't judge yourself, the judgment just has to stop. Just don't judge yourself if you can't. Have empathy for yourself for that, maybe you look at that bag in five years. It's okay. There's no rush. There's no huge timeline. You guys, I still am unpacking stuff, I'm not fully healed.

(33:37): Are you ever?

(33:37): No.

(33:38): Are you ever fully, fully healed? And you can't, if you're fully, fully healed and you walk away completely, now you have no tie to minister to someone else. I can look backwards as if I'm looking in at like the business failure. And I can look at that now and I have no emotional connection anymore. I'm like, okay. I see what God's done with it. But it doesn't mean that at times I don't get triggered by the 'you're not successful enough' and I'm like, oh, interesting. Okay. That cool. That's a weird tie that's still there. I'm gonna cut that. But you have to be curious about the things and know that it's always with you, your stuff and the things you've walked through they're always with you, but you don't have to be in bondage to them.

(34:23): Yeah.

(34:24): I love that. I love the empathy. Jesus is found in the empathy and Jesus is found in the compassion. I love that you said that and that holy spirit is the healer.

(34:34): Amen.

(34:34): So amazing. So if you were to give everyone two final tips or takeaways, Dani, maybe they're struggling with, they know what's in the bag and it's holding them back from this next step, feeling qualified or feeling confident that they can or feeling worthy that they deserve to move into God's call. What would be those final things you'd wanna say to them, encourage them with or plant for them?

(34:59): Man, first of all, you're not alone, you're absolutely not alone and that you're in good company. I bet most people, if they're honest, have those doubts and those thoughts and all that. I would encourage you to bring someone else, a godly person into your process. And maybe it's a therapist. I mean, there's so many great godly, amazing therapists out there. And maybe it's a spiritual director. Maybe it's a pastor. Maybe it's your best friend who you walk with that you can just be honest. And have somebody that can hold the space because you guys only you and the holy spirit can figure it out. Okay, man is great. Man is amazing. But sometimes man is gonna say something, I don't mean just men, but human is going to say something to you just so that you know in your gut, that's off.

(35:41): That doesn't mean they're bad people, doesn't mean they're off, doesn't mean they don't hear from the Lord. It means that the Lord is building His strength in you. That you can trust yourself. You can trust what He is saying and take the next step in that. And don't condemn yourself. There's just so much self hatred and judgment out there. And I believe if you can just find a deep breath, some fresh air and just make a pact with the Lord, okay, I'm gonna put judgment down for a minute. Will you show up in compassion and teach me? I'm telling you, I will bet my house on that part. He will show up with compassion and grace and He will. I mean, He is just so faithful in that area. I think that would be my biggest advice and that you're not alone and you are loved and there is a purpose for you and you wouldn't be listening to Stef Gass if He didn't have something bigger for you anyways.

(36:26): Amen to that. Man, you've been awesome, Dani! You've blessed us, I have like three or four pages of notes from all of your amazing goodness that you poured out for us today and friends, I'm gonna ask Dani to close us in prayer, cuz she's just got an anointing over this work that she's called to do. But first Dani, where can everybody come listen to your amazing show and hang out with you ?

(36:48): A Holy Mess Podcast, you can find it anywhere podcasts are available and my website is danisumner.com. And come join the fam, I don't know. We're still figuring it out, my call with Stef next week, we'll move on to my next steps.

(37:10): Exactly. Step by step. Okay, Dani close us out and thank you so much for being here.

(37:15): All right. Oh man. Lord, first of all, I just thank you for who you are. God, I thank you for your faithfulness. I thank you that you don't create us to walk this planet alone, Lord, that you've brought like-minded people, God who are seeking after the same things. Lord, and I thank you for Stef. I thank you for her anointing. I thank you for her, just her compassion and her empathy and her wisdom. God, I thank you that she's not afraid to listen to you and she's not afraid to speak what you say to her, God. So I pray Lord that you just continue to open doors for her and her ministry. And gosh, man, Lord, and I thank you for the listener. I thank you for the call upon their life, God, I thank you. Father, I pray Lord, if there's deep things going on, that they would have compassion even for themselves, for whatever was triggered in today's podcast.

(37:54): Lord, I pray that they would breathe into it. I pray they'd go on a walk. I pray they'd talk to you, God. And I pray that you would awaken them to the people in their lives, Lord that are trustworthy and that are good, Lord. And I pray Lord that they would just sense your compassion and that all of this heartache and all of this regret and ache in their hearts Lord, or if they were traumatized, Lord, that was never your intent, that you have just so much love and compassion for them. And that you promise to be with them, Lord, that you already have things written for them, Lord, for their future of hope and of joy and of peace and of purpose. Lord, meet them right where they are, whatever their suffering is, God. Just pray you'd meet them. I pray that they would just know how loved they are, Lord, and that they could look themselves in the mirror and just say, I'm worthy. I'm worthy because I'm so loved and learned forgiveness and all of that Lord. Oh man, do it all, Lord. Lord, we need you. The world is getting crazier. Lord, we need you. You are so good. Bless our friends today. In Jesus' name. Thanks for Stef, Lord. Bless her. Amen.

(38:50): Amen. Thank you, Dani.

(38:52): All right, friend. I hope that blessed you. And I want you to know that there is a community where you can come and connect with like-minded women. It's a safe space to share your heart, get support and find other faith led kingdom builders, just like you who have been through it. We've all been through it. It's part of the process it's part of growing. And I want you to know you're not alone. Come over to stefgasscommunity.com, join the sisterhood. Find that encouragement and that fuel and that anointing for your heart that maybe you've been searching for. We love to befriend you, to welcome you into our community and to just have you be part of the sisterhood over at stefgasscommunity.com. God bless you. I'll see you, guys, back next week.