Tips to Legally Protect Your Business and Copyright Your Podcast

Hey Friend!

Contracts, Trademarks, and Becoming LEGIT, Oh-My! In today’s podcast, we teach you everything You Need to Know About Legally Protecting Your Podcast and Online Business with Andrea Sager from Legalpreneur!

This is your LEGAL 101 BootCamp in under an hour… Don’t miss it! Protecting yourself is super important, yet also super confusing. This conversation with Andrea made it easier and more realistic than ever. Simplifying legal is her jam.

We discuss the 3 ways to get LEGIT as a podcaster who has (or will be) creating a coaching or course offer:

To utilize any of the products or solutions mentioned, you can purchase through my affiliate link: www.stefaniegass.com/legal

Be sure to use the code: STEFGASS to save.

I pray this blesses you!

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:

(00:00):
Hey, friends! Welcome to today’s episode. Oh my goodness.

Do I remember being so stressed out about how to protect my business and my podcast when I got started and I remember scouring the internet, trying to figure out how to form a business or figure out the legal stuff that I needed to know?

(00:20):
What was a contract, what was a trademark, what was a copyright and really just struggling and being super overwhelmed and not having any idea where to start?

And that’s exactly why I have brought on my friend and the brilliant attorney, Andrea Sager, who owns the Legalpreneur.

(00:39):
That’s a podcast and it’s a brand for business owners just like us. I love Andrea so much because her area of expertise is exactly what we do, podcasters, course creators, and coaches.

So, guys, she goes through with us today, three really simple steps to protecting our businesses and she doesn’t make it complicated.

(01:06):
She really keeps it super simple. And she goes in order so that you know the right way to start, you know what to actually get done, when you can relax, knowing your business is set up correctly.

You don’t have to be afraid that you’re missing something or messing up the legal and you’re really set up for big success. So 3, 2, 1, let’s get lawyered up.

(02:30):
All right, friend, I can’t believe it, but it’s about that time. It’s time for you to scale your podcast.

If you’re listening to this episode, you obviously have a podcast, you have a business, you’re ready to profit and actually make income and impact from your business. Yes or yes?

(02:52):
I know. That is why I created Podcast to Profit mastermind. Guys, this is my 90-day mastermind program for podcasters. And it is not for the faint of heart.

Don’t even go to the website, if you ain’t ready to do the work. We dig in so deep into flushing out your avatar, who you’re called to serve.

(03:16):
We go so deep. I teach you how to get into the weeds of what your person truly really wants.

I have you guys revamp so many pieces of your podcast, optimize the SEO and the keywords, and the titling so that you can start to have massive growth in a very short amount of time.

(03:33):
We then go into creating your thing or optimizing your thing, whether it be coaching or courses.

And I teach you how to actually build them. There is a tech tutorial for every single step in Podcast to Profit, by the way, which is super new. This is P2P 2.0, folks.

(03:56):
We have totally reworked this program from beginning to end. And so I am talking, every single thing I ask you to do inside of Podcast to Profit has an Excel spreadsheet that goes with it or a workbook that goes with it or a tutorial that goes with it.

(04:12):
It’s not just training you how to do the pieces, but actually making sure that you do them, you finish them. And you’re accountable to them. Along with the training, you have the breakout sessions with me, where I do power coaching with you.

(04:26):
Every other week, you have office hours with my team and you have so much community to get you through.

Guys, there is a reason that every single graduating class from this program is still standing. We have 100% of people graduate Podcast to Profit.

(04:41):
Why? Because there is so much accountability. There is so much to make sure that you do this work. There ain’t no way that you’re not gonna see it through to the other side.

(04:50):
So what do you walk away with when you’re done with my 12-week immersion profit program for podcasters, you have got a streamlined podcast, you have learned how to make your show rank, grow and thrive.

(05:05):
Get seen organic growth and marketing strategies, all locked and loaded. You have a streamlined coaching offer and or course offer and know how to sell.

Your sales page is optimized, you do the backend of all the tech, receive payments, do bookings, all of those pieces.

(05:20):
And most importantly, you have a community of other kingdom-led faith, led entrepreneurs, just like you, who you are now yoked up with.

We’re gonna encourage you, walk beside you, and be partnered with you in your growth. It is truly an exceptional experience. And I just ask you to start praying over this.

(05:38):
If this could be right for you, we have just opened applications to the first-ever P2P 2.0, you can head to podcasttoprofitmastermind.com. We already have 16 people on the waitlist and there are only 30 spots.

(05:57):
So if this has been on your heart and you wanna get into the spring/summer graduating class of Podcast to Profit, I want you to go get your application in right now. I pray that this is the time for you.

(06:07):
And I pray that the right people are gonna say yes to this opportunity, because I know that this has your name all over it, and I can’t help. Can’t wait to help you to take your podcast to the next level. All right, let’s talk to my girl, Andrea.

(06:22):
We have Andrea here from Legalpreneur. You guys heard how awesome she is in the intro, and I’m so excited to have a super chill, down to earth, a lawyer friend who can bring us some wisdom without all the confusion today. So Andrea, welcome to the show!

(06:41):
Thank you. I like to say that I put a little fun spin on the legal stuff, but I try to live up to it as well. So yeah, let’s see what we can do today.

(06:51):
Kind of a blend. Tell us a little bit about what you do. What is your legal expertise? What are you doing on a daily basis? Tell us a little bit about Legalpreneur.

(06:59):
So much has changed over the past four years. I started in big law and got the big firm job. I could literally watch a Cincinnati reds game from my 38th-floor office. It was the most beautiful looking thing, from the outside looking in.

(07:20):
Fancy.

(07:21):
Yes, it was so fancy. It was just so posh. It was quote-unquote the dream job. But on the inside, I was very much very miserable. And when I started working, I had an eight-month-old and that was strategic.

(07:41):
I told my ex-husband at the time, Hey, I’m not gonna have kids in my first few years. If you want a baby, it’s gotta happen now. So I was the youngest person at the firm to have a kid.

And I would go home at a decent hour, put my son to bed and then work from home the rest of the evening.

(08:00):
But that wasn’t enough. They wanted butt-in-seat, in the office. And which is so funny because now nobody’s butts-in-seat in the office.

(08:08):
Nope.

(08:09):
But it was such a blessing in disguise because I’m just a serial entrepreneur and a previous business I had, that network of business owners, they were constantly coming to me at the firm.

They just couldn’t afford the rates. Cuz it was a big firm. It was not affordable. And I saw the need firsthand.

(08:29):
And finally, I had a client that was like, I don’t care how much it is. I want to work with you. I need to get a trademark done. And I’m like, great. I’m a first-year associate. The firm’s gonna love me cause I’m bringing in business.

(08:42):
And I literally had a partner tell me to my face. This is a small business. They’re not quality clients. We do not want them.

And I think a lot of us have these defining moments in our lives we’re like, okay, what I’m currently doing is not what I’m meant to be doing.

(08:59):
And that was it for me. I remember standing there in his office just looking and feeling so dumbfounded. I remember that pit you get in your stomach. This is not the place for me.

And just seeing firsthand that there was a whole clientele that needed to be served and nobody was serving them or they just didn’t know where to go.

(09:23):
And I remember sitting in the office thinking that would be so cool if I could be that go-to, I could become known as the go-to online business attorney.

I clearly remember sitting there and having these thoughts and fast forward four years later, I’m the go-to online business attorney.

(09:43):
And it’s just amazing to see what can happen when you have this vision and you just pursue it, you pursue your true desires. So, I launched my own firm very soon after that. And the firm grew really quickly.

(10:00):
Well, we also created our Legalpreneur membership, which created the Legalpreneur company and very much legal resources, even more affordable than the firm.

(10:10):
Because the firm, I tell people, look, we’re not the most affordable, we’re not the cheapest, but we’re not the most expensive, very much middle of the road.

And I just realized what we’ve created with this Legalpreneur brand, this has the potential to reach the masses.

(10:26):
Sure.

(10:26):
And so now that’s what we’re doing. We are transitioning. I mean, we’re officially a VC-funded startup and we are building an app.

We are really just doing everything we can to provide as much value as possible to the online business owners to provide them their legal stuff that they need.

(10:47):
Because without it, number one, they don’t know where to go. They don’t know what they don’t know. It seems so scary and intimidating. They think it’s gonna be so expensive. And so we do our best to in front of people and help them realize, Hey, we know this is your fear.

(11:03):
And we know this is what has been the long time, archaic story around the legal stuff, but it doesn’t have to be like that.

If you attack it upfront, you’re proactive about it. It doesn’t have to be expensive, scary, intimidating and you can use legal to truly empower and grow your business. And so that’s what we’re doing with Legal programs.

(11:24):
Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations. I’m so excited for you. I know that for me, same thing, do I find a legal company where I live and then I went off referral basis and then I went with the big firm and then they were super expensive, but I didn’t specialize in what I do.

(11:41):
I ended up finding you but looking at the contract bundle. And so that’s where I started with you, guys. And I got this contract bundle from Andrea and it had literally everything in it that I needed to run this business successfully.

(11:59):
And then from there realized, oh my gosh, you guys have so many more awesome resources for me to learn about trademarking and all these pieces.

So what I wanna start with is here. You know a bit about my audience, we’re gonna assume they’ve started this business and they have a podcast.

(12:18):
I’m gonna say that they’re starting, they’re not super profitable if at all yet. They’re probably in their first year. I do have about 10% who are super successful, they’ve passed the six-figure benchmark, but the majority are ‘let’s do this’. I’m in the messy middle.

(12:35):
Yes.

(12:36):
Middle’s my favorite.

(12:37):
That’s the best place.

(12:38):
It’s so good. It’s before it’s hard. You think it’s hard, but it’s really not hard yet.

(12:45):
That’s such a fun place to be. Cuz you’re learning so much.

(12:51):
Yeah. And everything’s hard. I heard this a while ago and you just repeated it earlier. Everything’s hard until it’s not, and there’s always an answer and there’s always a resource and there’s always an expert for every single thing you need.

(13:02):
So let’s begin. What are the basic legal protections, they don’t have a lot of money to spend and they’re trying to duct tape their business together over there? Cause I know her. I see Lola.

(13:15):
Yeah.

(13:15):
What should they be starting with baseline?

(13:19):
There are three things they need to be starting with. Number one is your business entity. This is how you legally operate your business.

And if you go to any Facebook group and you ask somebody, Hey, should I be a sole proprietor or an LLC or an S-corp or this or that, you’re gonna get a million different answers from a million different people.

(13:40):
But as the go-to attorney for all my business owners, I am here to tell you once and for all, you need to be an LLC, a limited liability company as soon as possible.

(13:52):
Correct. Agree.

(13:53):
And even if you’re not yet making money, I’m going to explain why you still need to be an LLC as soon as possible.

So whether you have a podcast, if you’re building an audience, if you are putting yourself out there as either creating buzz for your future business, or you have a business you’re just not incredibly profitable either way, you now have to see yourself as a business owner.

(14:19):
A couple of weeks ago I had a phone call with somebody. She said I started doing freelance work and I’m trying to decide if I wanna create a business and I have clients and da, da, da.

I was like, girlfriend, you just said, you have clients, you have a business.

(14:34):
You’re a business.

(14:37):
Every client call that I have, it just opens my eyes to new fears of the business owners. And that’s one thing there is just you don’t even realize that you have a business and you don’t realize that you have to be protecting yourself.

(14:57):
And unfortunately, a lot of people don’t realize it until it’s too late. The reason that you need an LLC as soon as possible because I’ll hear, oh, I, I don’t have any assets so they can’t sue me for anything.

(15:11):
Or my accountant said to wait until I’m making this much money or for this reason, that reason. So let me illustrate this as quickly as possible. So maybe you have all these fears in your head and you’ve heard all these things.

(15:24):
So let’s say day one, you start your business. And first of all, let me backtrack really quickly. So the of the LLC is to protect you personally.

It is to protect you as an individual from the deaths of your company. And that means if you get sued for something that happens in your business, if you’re an LLC, they can’t come after you personally.

(15:47):
So they can’t come after your car, your house, anything you own personally, that’s what you’re protected from. Day one, you start your business, and, for whatever reason, you’re waiting to file the LLC.

(16:01):
Well, day two, you start to blow up and make a lot of money and you accidentally do something that can cause you to get sued. You’re not getting sued on day two, but eventually, they can sue you for it.

(16:14):
Well, now day three you’re oh my gosh, I’m making all this money. Let me go get that LLC. So you get the LLC on day three.

Well then day 100 plus, somebody finds out that you did something back on day two. And they’re oh my gosh, I just discovered this I’m gonna go sue them.

(16:32):
And this could be day hundred, year two, year three, they sue you. And by this point, you are bringing in that money. You do have these assets now and you get sued and you’re oh, I’m an LLC.

I’m fine. I’m covered. But you’re not because the day the act happened on day two, you were not an LLC.

(16:54):
So you actually don’t get that LLC protection because you weren’t an LLC the day the act happened. So that all of that to say, you never know what’s gonna happen.

And that’s why you need to get this protection as soon as possible, just to protect you, no matter what it’s gonna be there, you never know what’s gonna happen. We’re not trying to break the law. We’re not trying to do things, but we’re human.

(17:18):
Exactly. And it was so much easier than I thought to get an LLC. It was ridiculous, we make it this big thing and I have to do this thing and spend a billion dollars. And actually, no and I learned the hard way cause I did spend a billion dollars to do it.

(17:34):
And then found out later it was like literally a certificate through my state for $35 a year. And then along with the LLC created the separate business accounts, the separate business credit cards really separated personal versus business a hundred percent.

(17:51):
And that’s where I lived for a couple of years until just this year when you’re making enough profit. And it makes sense from a tax perspective to move to an S-Corp. Do you agree with that?

(18:03):
Yes. Then you’ll get the question oh, should I be an LLC or an S-Corp? It’s actually the wrong question to ask because you can’t be an S-Corp until you are an LLC or a C-Corp, a corporation.

(18:16):
And as self-employed individuals, whether you’re a sole proprietor or an LLC, you actually get double tax, you’re paying double self-employment taxes.

And if you are making enough money in your business to pay yourself a reasonable salary, and this is a legitimate W2 salary.

(18:37):
Then you can make that S-Corp election and just pay yourself that salary. Obviously, if you’re making a million dollars a year, you can’t pay yourself $50,000 a year. That’s not reasonable.

(18:47):
But that is a conversation for your accountant to figure out what’s reasonable and anything on top of that after your expenses, that’s profit and that can be distributed to you.

(18:59):
And you avoid that double self-employment tax.

(19:02):
Exactly.

(19:03):
S-Corp, very beneficial for tax purposes. You do have to be making enough money to pay yourself a salary but just pay for a one-hour consult with an accountant.

That’s all you have to do. Figure out the exact numbers in your business and you’ll be good to go.

(19:20):
And I try to do everything on my own. I see what you guys are doing back there. I try to do my own bookkeeping and do my own taxes. And I tried to do my own stuff.

(19:32):
And then finally, eight months ago only, so I waited way too long, I finally went in for a consult with an accountant and they found $10,000 in one hour that I was making and I’m done, take all my money, do the thing.

And then right there, they’re like you’re way too big. You need to be an S-Corp. You’re missing out on all this stuff.

(19:54):
And I’m like, oh my gosh, cuz you don’t know what you don’t know. So step one, LLC we’re done with that. How do they LLC?

(20:04):
So there’s three levels. I like to tell people, number one, do it yourself. Go straight to your secretary of state’s website and file an LLC. That’s the cheapest way because you don’t have to pay any third-party fees. All you have to do is pay the state filing fee.

(20:21):
Then, the next level up would be working with a third party, such as the Legalpreneur, which Stephanie has her links, and we can file for you. We file it, get your EIN number, get your articles of organization, everything you need.

(20:35):
And that’s the second option because it’s not quite working with an attorney. However, we do have fees. So it’s our fee. Plus the state filing fee. In the next level, which is the most costly option is working directly with an attorney.

(20:50):
Now I’m gonna say, honestly, not everybody needs to work with an attorney from the beginning. If you’re brand new business owner, nothing in your life, I was gonna say nothing in your life is complicated, but we’re all complicated.

(21:06):
But if this is like your first business, you really don’t have a lot going on personally asset-wise, then honestly, you’re probably good to either do it on your own or pay a third party.

You probably don’t need to work with an attorney one on one unless you’re like, look, I just need to make sure that it’s getting done correctly.

(21:28):
And you wanna get some advice and if you wanna get those questions asked, absolutely work with an attorney.

But it don’t be afraid to do it on your own or do it without an attorney because I love the Marie Forleo quote, everything is figureoutable. I’m such a firm believer in that. Everything is figureoutable.

(21:48):
Agreed. I love this. So good. And you guys, yes, if you go to stefaniegass.com/resources, I have the Lawyer up section and you’re just gonna click that link. And the reason I’m not giving you a link is cuz you know how links change. I learned hard way.

(22:03):
So go to stefaniegass.com/resources. It’s right there. It’s under the legal and my code STEFGASS as well. That can save you guys 20%. If anything, we talk about, you decide to go with Legalpreneur, which I highly recommend.

(22:18):
It’s that beautiful middle ground of not DIYing it and messing stuff up, but not having thousands and thousands of dollars of lawyer fees. So, step one was, we are gonna put our entity together, we are becoming a legal company. What is number two?

(22:35):
Number two is the contracts. Don’t be afraid to use them. It’s as simple as that, don’t be afraid to use them. And we have our contract bundles. We have different niche bundles, according to different business industries. If you’re a podcaster, there’s a podcast bundle.

(22:52):
If you’re a business coach, there’s a coaching bundle. So any niche that you are in, we have a bundle for you. And it has all the contracts that you need. Every bundle that we have has privacy policy and terms and conditions. So all that’s covered for your website.

(23:07):
And then it’s the niche-specific contracts. So don’t hesitate to use contracts. They are there to protect you and the other party, it’s not there to slide something in and pull one over on the other person. It really is there to protect everybody involved.

(23:24):
Do you have, Andrea and you may not, but do you have a list that shows us what contracts we should be using for what? Cause, try to buy the bundle from you guys and I have all the bundles from you. And I just come up with things.

(23:41):
I have someone doing a coaching session with someone, but I might use their coaching session on my podcast.

So I have the coaching client contract and I have the podcast release thingy that they’re giving me rights to use it on the show. But that’s just me intuitively picking stuff.

(24:00):
That is such a good idea. We just did a podcast episode about what makes your website compliant. But I think that’s a good idea to do different situations for different contracts.

Cause we’ve done plenty of episodes about contracts, but I think having one comprehensive Hey, this is what you need, that’s a good idea.

(24:22):
And like a checklist per niche. You guys, could have ‘you’re the podcasting bundle?’ Here’s all your contracts. And then here’s where you use those contracts. There you go. I love it.

(24:33):
Once they do this, we’ll include it for you guys in your bundles. Now, they come and they buy the contract bundle and that’s just direct through the website and you guys can use STEFGASS on those. But I highly recommend that ,that has been a lifesaver for me.

(24:49):
And when you open those contracts, I think what’s so fun, the only part you need to worry about are in yellow. So they’ve made this so easy for us.

Cause I don’t know half the stuff, identification and I don’t even know. But they got my back and all I have to do is fill in these yellow sections.

(25:11):
And so that’s been really cool. Then I use signnow, that’s what I use for my signing. It’s great. You upload the contracts. You can create a short link to send to your clients or to pop into an email blast that goes out to podcast interviews. It’s so user-friendly. It’s so great.

(25:29):
Yes. So we are creating an app which should be out in the next month or two. And with the app, you will actually be able to send the contracts to be signed from the app. We’re gonna have our own signature part of the app. So much is coming together with the app is super exciting.

(25:48):
Can you repeat it? Are you like, I almost have an app?

(25:54):
Yes. It’s actually something that I envisioned almost two years ago and I put this whole project on hold and now I’m like in a good place again where it’s like, we’re hitting the ground running. We are making all this happen.

(26:11):
That’s so good. So based on the bundles that you guys have right now, what bundles would you recommend or do you have an all-in-one where people can buy the whole thing or do they just pick the niche?

(26:22):
Cuz I know back when I bought it, I was able to grab, I think a majority of the niches and I’ve used stuff from all the different bundles.

Cause we’re podcasters, we’re coaches, we’re course creators, we’re group coaching people, we’re life coaches, what bundles should they buy?

(26:39):
Yeah. So if you want everything, so you can get full access to the contract vault, bundles, all of the contracts.

If you are an annual Legalpreneur member, which we’ll get into in a little bit, but if you’re not an annual Legalpreneur member, you can purchase the different niche bundles.

(26:58):
And if you’re a coach, we have a coach bundle. If you’re a photographer, we have the photography bundle, we have florist, we have breathwork practitioner. Literally we’ve pretty much thought of almost everything.

(27:12):
And if we haven’t thought of it, let me know. And we will add that bundle because that’s our goal is to make sure we have a bundle literally for everybody.

(27:20):
Yes. So good. And so you wanna really look at what do so grab like the coach bundle or the whatever your vocation is and then the podcast bundle as well.

And then the other bundle, where are the contracts for your virtual assistance and to bring on labor? Is that a different bundle?

(27:38):
We have a general bundle, which has the independent contractor agreements and NDA, the confidentiality clauses, all that’s included in the general bundle.

(27:48):
So y’all heard it there. Those are the contracts I personally use and recommend. Love them. And they’re just so great. If you have issues or questions too, you can pop in.

If you end up with a membership, you have access to Andrea’s live Q&A, it’s just super nice. Lawyer in your pocket, fine.

(28:09):
No big deal.

(28:10):
No biggie. So when you guys go to my resources page, I have a contract section, just click that button, same code STEFGASS as well.

And you can save money and they’re really affordable. The bundles are super affordable. Please do this because it just protects you. Let’s go number three.

(28:28):
Number three is my personal favorite, which is intellectual property. And it is my favorite because as an online business owner, everything you create is intellectual property.

And whether you realize it or not intellectual property is your business’s most valuable asset.

(28:47):
So it has to be protected at all costs. So intellectual property, there’s three buckets, patents, trademarks, copyrights. I don’t cover patents. It’s a whole nother ballgame.

Essentially, they’re inventions. Now what I cover, my favorite is trademarks.

(29:03):
And then we have copyrights and the simplest way to know the difference between the two. I know people get them confused all the time, the simplest way, trademarks equal branding.

(29:15):
So anything that identifies your brand, your brand name, your logo, your slogan, your podcast name, a service name, a product name, anything that has a unique name within your business, it can probably be protected with a trademark.

(29:31):
Now, on the other hand, we have copyrights. This is all the creative content.

So all of the works that go inside of those things that have a name that’s protected with a copyright, your photos, your videos, your blog posts, the course content that you have.

If you have a podcast, the name of the podcast is protected with a trademark. The episodes are protected with a copyright. So trademarks equal branding, copyrights equal content.

(30:00):
Okay.

(30:00):
Simplest way to remember that.

(30:01):
That’s really good. So let’s start with copyrights for a second because all I know when it comes to copyrights is having the little C at the bottom of all my stuff with the copyright and the current date, is that right?

What do you wanna do? And am I totally forgetting something that’s super important?

(30:19):
No, you’re good. So the thing about copyrights is you have federal rights the moment the work is created. That’s why you see the copyright symbol anywhere and everywhere because the moment you create that work, you own the copyright to it.

(30:37):
As long as it’s unique and original, you own the copyright. Now, on our website footer, the footers on all of our stuff that we have the copyright symbol, you want the date, the year to be the year that it was last updated.

(30:53):
Okay.

(30:54):
So you’ve updated your website this year, hopefully you have, it should be 2022.

(30:59):
Gotcha. Okay. Perfect. Cause I think on something I have a range, cause I didn’t know the answer. So I just put the range, but no, I only need the last date. That’s perfect.

(31:08):
Yes.

(31:08):
And you just manually put that on all your stuff, your website, our podcast has that space for it copyright with that information and that’s just all free.

(31:19):
Yep. You do not have to have a registration to have copyright rights. However, you cannot sue for copyright infringement unless you have a copyright registration so that’s where the difference is.

Now, as the attorney that’s worked with tons and tons of online business owners, your money’s most likely better spend on a trademark application.

(31:47):
Because what the trademark registration gives you most of the time is more valuable than a copyright registration. Because at the end of the day, you’re probably not gonna sue anybody. You can do what you need to do without a copyright registration.

(32:07):
And the people I work with very small business owners, they have little to no legal budget and I have to help them make what they have go as far as possible. So that’s why I say your money’s most likely better spent on a trademark application.

(32:19):
Now, it’s different for everybody. Who really benefits from registrations is designers. We have a ton of t-shirt designers. And we do have them in a consistent rhythm registering their copyrights. But again, varies for everybody.

(32:35):
Okay. That’s good to know. So let’s talk now, trademarks. I feel like this is the big, and this is the one that gets everybody like they’re itching.

And I already have one. But talk to us about this. Cuz I think here’s where I get weird with trademarks.

(32:53):
I get weird with trademarks, Andrea, because somebody comes in and they’re like, okay, I’m gonna start this podcast and it’s gonna be called Macro Mastery Podcast.

I’m gonna go trademark today. Well, the issue is they just started, they end up rebranding six months from now.

(33:10):
They dropped two grand on a trademark that doesn’t go with them. So I’m always feeling weird around pushing trademarks on people when they’re still figuring it out a little bit.

Even myself, I used to be The Mompreneur Mastermind show. I was that for two years. And then I was gonna trademark that.

(33:28):
And then I had this like God moment and I decided to fully rebrand the whole thing. Well, thank goodness, I didn’t spend thousands of dollars on this other thing.

So hearing that and you have to give us your legal opinion, but I’d love to know what you think here.

(33:43):
So I have a great answer to this. Because like I said, the business owners we work with they have little to no budget. I have to help you make your budget go as far as possible.

And trademarks need to be a concern from day one.

(33:57):
However, you may not need to file the application from day one because just like you said, I’ve seen that happen so many times where people file, and then by the time they’re approved, they’ve already pivoted. So what do you do?

(34:10):
Well, number one, you still wanna do a proper trademark search and this is more than just searching Google and it’s more than just searching the same exact name because the thing about trademarks.

It’s not just the same exact name that’s trademark infringement. It’s anything similar enough to where consumers are likely to be confused as to who the owner is.

(34:34):
So I’m Andrea Sager Law in the law firm. If there’s an Andrea Sager Legal that’s infringement, if there’s Andrew Sager Law Firm Legal, any variation thereof it’s trademark infringement. Now, that’s why you wanna do the search because you have to make sure.

(34:55):
Obviously, you know how to look for the same exact name, but you also need to look for similar names because I can’t tell you how many people have done what they thought was a great search on their own.

(35:07):
They didn’t find anything, but then they still get a cease in desist letter a couple of months after launching their business or their new offer.

And it’s because there’s a similar name out there. So you need to learn to do a proper trademark search and what so we offer the trademark course.

(35:29):
And it’s very in-depth. The search module is our longest module because that’s the most important step. And then of course we take you through filing everything.

But the thing about applications is, just like you said, when is the right time to file?

(35:50):
And what I like to tell people is, number one, if money’s not a problem file as soon as possible. However, most likely you don’t have an unlimited budget so you wanna wait until you have momentum.

And what I mean by that is, let’s say you launched the offering one time.

(36:09):
And obviously, we’re all hoping our first time it’s a huge success. And we’re making millions of dollars even $50,000, a hundred thousand dollars.

Obviously, that’s what we wanna be making in our business. So if you launch it one time and you’re just testing the water, I don’t think that’s when you should file if money is an issue.

(36:30):
Yes. Agree.

(36:31):
But if you launch it and wow, this is great. And you launch it again. And I’m not just testing, this is a thing, this is a real thing that’s gonna stick. That’s when you have momentum. And that’s when you wanna file the application for the trademark.

(36:46):
Now a few questions that come up for me here is a lot of times, for my brand, we have Stefanie Gass and I’m the umbrella. And then I have six things underneath me that are all called different things.

(36:58):
And I think a lot of the women have a similar thing. Like they have their name and then they have their podcast name or whatever. So how do you pick what to trademark, if you’re not in the position to trademark five things.

(37:13):
Yeah. So priority, what is the priority? We’ll have clients that come to us and they’re like, I have like 10 things and then they get scared because it’s like, oh look, you have all these things, why can’t afford to do all that right now?

(37:26):
Okay, let’s take a breath. Let’s figure out what’s the priority. Number one, if the overall brand is not yet protected, that’s the priority.

(37:35):
Agree. Right.

(37:36):
And then the offerings underneath, let’s assess the priority there. If there’s something you don’t plan on ever launching again, then you don’t need to worry about that.

If there’s something that you’re gonna keep launching, but it’s making you a hundred dollars a year that may not be the priority.

(37:54):
So you really just need to assess the priority as far as how often are you launching things? How much money is it making you, and then just going from there and trying to build on your trademark portfolio.

(38:08):
Because the goal with all this legal protection is to build a wall and you wanna build a wall of protection so high that nobody can get over that wall and infringe on your brand.

So that’s why getting the entity is the first layer of bricks, implementing those contracts is the second layer.

(38:26):
And then the trademarks and copyrights, you keep building and building until you just have this wall of protection and it’s like, go ahead, try it, sister, I’m protected. And I know what I can and cannot do.

(38:38):
That’s so good. I love that visual. And I like that you’re saying, over time as you become more and more successful and as you have more and more momentum, you can add more and more layers.

I’m just now at the point, looking at trademarking all the different offerings that I have under the brand.

(38:55):
And I’m a half a million-dollar business. And so I wasn’t at that point where I truly could really afford it or I wasn’t even sure. I had just created CYC last year. So I waited to be like, is this here?

Is this part of the core offering that I see 10 years from now? Cause otherwise, it’s not worth trademarking. Something that you’re like, let me test this thing.

(39:16):
Yeah. Exactly.

(39:17):
Be sure you’re married to it before trademark it.

Question on the trademarks, I’ve heard through, I don’t know, legal grapevine that you can use, let’s find out if this is true, the TM on your stuff without a registration so that you can and start claiming those first use rights, is that correct?

(39:40):
Yes. So the TM, you can use that on anything you claim to have the trademark rights to. It doesn’t mean that you have the rights. But it means that you have a good faith belief that you have trademark rights to this.

And the R circle symbol that is when you actually have the federal rights.

(40:01):
Good. And then last question on trademark, sometimes people have a descriptive name, Andrea, Macros for Moms Podcast.

And my understanding is you actually cannot trademark a descriptive unless you’ve used it for like X amount of time. Let me know your thoughts on that.

(40:20):
You can. Now, there’s a big divide with trademark attorneys because 10 plus years ago, even five years ago, a lot of bigger businesses really won’t waste their money on descriptive trademarks because it’s hard to enforce.

But really the only time it comes up is when you’re suing somebody in court.

(40:48):
As an online business owner, we’re not trying to sue anybody in court. We’re just trying to enforce what we have. So there’s actually two registries for the trademarks.

Very few people know, unless you’re a trademark attorney, you probably don’t know that.

(41:02):
And if you’re descriptive, you get put on the secondary registry, which is called the supplemental. The goal is to be on the principal registry. That’s where you get the good rights, the big rights, the best rights.

(41:13):
But as an online business owner, you want what you can get, and having a descriptive name and being on the supplemental registry at the end of the day, it is pretty much just as good as being on the principal registry because number one, most people don’t know that there’s a difference.

(41:31):
Number two, if you find somebody infringing on your name online and, so the power of a trademark registration is if you find somebody online, infringing on your name, you go to that platform, whether it’s Facebook, Instagram, Etsy, any podcast platform, anywhere it’s hosted, you can submit trademark takedown.

(41:55):
And those platforms typically will work with you to get that removed. However, in order for them to even give you the time of day to consider a trademark takedown, you have to have a trademark registration.

And it does not matter whether it’s on the principle or the supplemental registration, that’s where the power in a trademark registration lies.

(42:17):
Now, we did this with the Legalpreneur brand. I didn’t have Legalpreneur, The Legalpreneur, they were all taken, but this was several years ago.

Once I got the trademark registration, I submitted it a takedown to Instagram for all these Legalpreneur accounts.

(42:38):
Literally, within two days they were all removed. And they gave me one cause I said I want one of these and literally emailed them. And we actually just changed it recently cuz we were Legalpreneur but everything else our domain, TikTok, everything else is The Legalpreneur.

(42:58):
So we were Legalpreneur and then we tried to change it. But once they get taken down, you can’t change it yourself. You have to contact Instagram. So I just emailed that same address.

(43:08):
Literally, this was several weeks ago and I said, Hey, we have this taken down a few years ago. We wanna change it to The Legalpreneur. Within 24 hours, we had The Legalpreneur account.

(43:19):
Amazing.

(43:20):
Yes. And that’s the power that a federal trademark registration can do.

(43:24):
That’s so good. Oh, man. Wow. I think this has been extremely helpful, just going through the three steps. To recap for you, guys, we have created an entity so that you can legally operate LLC up ASAP. End of story.

Number two, contracts, which highly recommend the contract bundle through Legalpreneur, guys.

(43:49):
And I’ll, of course, link that for you. And then the third step is looking at intellectual property. Once you have momentum and really focusing on trademark, most likely for all of you and what you do.

(44:05):
And looking at the umbrella first, then going down into the offerings, which Andrea has the trademarking course, which I probably start there, see what you can do yourself as far as those searches.

And then from there they can actually if they decide an R at that point can trademark through you guys.

(44:24):
Yeah. And honestly, if you’re looking for a more in-depth overall, look at the legal stuff, start with the five-day legal course, the legal challenge that we have and that’s the best place to get started for a more in-depth look overall at your business.

(44:44):
And then we have further courses, we have the trademark course that teaches you literally everything you need to know about trademarks.

(44:52):
So good. This has been so great. So Andrea, where can everybody come find you and listen to the amazing podcast that you guys have and tell ’em the places.

(45:03):
Yeah. So our podcast is The Legalpreneur podcast. We put out three episodes a week and it’s very much one short legal episode per week. Just bite-size information.

I don’t like to throw too much at anybody at once cause I know how overwhelming it can be.

(45:17):
And then we interview a rockstar entrepreneur that tells their story and how they’ve implemented the legal stuff in their business.

And then I have a more personal slash business episode, another bite-size episode, just giving my own perspective on business and or my personal side of things.

(45:36):
And the podcast has really been taken off this year. So definitely check that out. Would love any reviews and then Instagram @andreasagerlaw or @thelegalpreneur and then on TikTok at thelegalpreneur.

(45:50):
So good. Friend, thank you for blessing us today. This was so great. We appreciate you.

(45:55):
Thank you.

(45:57):
All right, friend. That’s a wrap. If you are ready to get a contract bundle, you want to take any of the stuff that Andrea mentioned.

The 5-day Bootcamp or check into her trademark course, you just gonna head to stefaniegass.com/legal and be sure to use the code STEFGASS at checkout to save some moolah.

(46:20):
That’s stefaniegass.com/legal and lawyer up.