5 Ways to Figure Out What You’re Called to Do with Pastor Dustin

Hey Friend!

Today I have a special treat for you! I brought on my pastor, Dustin Woodward from the incredible Citizen Church. Together, we dig into what the bible and scripture say about ‘calling’. Is it Godly to create a business from your calling? Is it biblical to use your calling for His glory? And, if so – how the heck do we actually discover what our callings are?

Pastor Dustin takes us through 5 ways to figure out what we’re called to do and even helps nudge us forward into taking that big (sometimes scary) first step.

If you’ve been feeling stuck, frustrated, or anxious about stepping out in faith to pursue what God has spoken over your life – this one is a must-listen.

I pray this blesses you!

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:

(00:00):
Hey, hey, I’m so excited, you, guys! I get the honor and privilege, today, of interviewing my pastor, Dustin Woodward. He is the lead pastor of Citizen Church, where we live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And he basically grew up as the typical pastor’s kid. And I know his dad and his mom so he’s super blessed.

(00:20):
He had an amazing set of parents to lead him in the word and in Jesus and help him ultimately find his true calling of leading a church. And he does such an exceptional job of it. He’s passionate about discipleship, seeing people come to the knowledge of Jesus, and having their lives transformed.

(00:39):
He is also a dad and a husband, and just totally down to earth. You, guys, are gonna love him so much. So today what we’re gonna be jamming on is calling. You hear me talk about calling all the time. I tell you why I believe you have one and why I believe you need to chase after and why you can build a business from your calling.

(01:01):
But what I wanted to talk to you, guys, about today is what does scripture actually say about calling? And I wanted to also bring up purpose versus calling and how we can biblically, see what God has to say about who He created us to be.

(01:16):
And I knew that the absolute perfect person to bring on and just bless you with his incredible speaking ability and he has this gift of bringing scripture, theology, and storytelling to life in a way that’s so applicable. It’s so real, and you get to see how the Bible applies to your actual life.

(01:38):
So, pastor Dustin does an exceptional job in today’s episode of walking you through calling from a biblical viewpoint and also he takes us through five steps of discovering walking out, and then covering what yours is.

(01:52):
And it’s fun because some of his steps are things that I’ve had you guys do. And I have you do in Clarify Your Calling, but some of them are not.

(02:00):
And a few of them, I had never even heard before and I loved them and they were such great key pieces of information that can help us just know that we know that we’re walking out this vision that God has for us.

(02:14):
So, I just hope you grab a notebook and pen. I think I took 5, 6 pages of notes, seriously. And so get ready to have your heart blessed big today and grab a seat. Reheat that coffee, let’s do this.

(03:28):
Before we dig into this amazing conversation, I wanted to let you guys know it’s the last day for you to claim the one-time special offer that me and my two amazing godsend friends have in store for you, which is The Productivity and Business Power Bundle with myself, Polly Payne from Horacio Printing and Chelsi Jo Moore from Systemize Your Life.

(03:49):
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(04:07):
How to finally get clear on building a business on godly principles. And today we’re talking about calling and you’re gonna know and have this tugging on your heart that maybe it’s time to really figure out what you’ve been called do so that you can go and create the thing from your calling, the business from your calling, which is absolutely possible for you.

(04:29):
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(04:42):
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(04:58):
The third course that you get is Podcast Pro University, which is my course that helps you learn to launch a successful podcast to grow your audience organically, no more social media hustle, no more algorithms, just hanging behind a mic however it is that you wanna show up.

(05:14):
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(05:32):
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(05:49):
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(06:13):
And if you’re hearing this episode after fed February 7th, don’t worry. I still have amazing courses at amazing prices for you over at stefaniegass.com. All right, guys, let’s do the thing.

(06:26):
You, guys, heard how awesome pastor Dustin is in the intro and I’m so excited to have my pastor here with us. Welcome to the show.

(06:36):
Hi, thank you. I love your show and I am super excited to be on.

(06:41):
I feel so fancy being able to say pastor Dustin, by the way.

(06:44):
Whatever. That’s great. So fancy.

(06:50):
As we were, you and I were talking about you coming on the show a couple months ago. And me telling you about how the women and men too, actually, now that I’m serving through this podcast, it all comes down to this core concept of you have this calling.

(07:09):
And I truly believe in my heart that every person has like these books in heaven about them that they’re called to fulfill, and that it’s there for everyone.

(07:22):
And as we talked about this, I asked you, would you come on the show and kind of talk about calling from a true biblical perspective, knowing all the amazing things you know, understanding theology. And I sent you, I think, on a rabbit hole of digging into and calling work.

(07:39):
You did. So when you first mentioned this to me, I did not, this was a few months ago. I did not have a January sermon series nailed out. And I started studying this after our conversation.

(07:48):
So we did a whole, I mean, I’m still in it, about to finish it this Sunday. I did a whole series on it, so, I went down a rabbit hole of awesomeness. So, I’m really excited about it. I learned a lot.

(07:59):
So good. Well, let’s start with, I think sometimes I get this question of Stef, what’s the difference between purpose and calling. And I would just love to hear your perspective on that.

(08:11):
Yeah. So, I think for a lot of people they get confused on, I know I have, a lot of times in my life, what is the difference purpose – calling? Is it semantics? Is there a difference? Are they distinct? Cuz it feels like people throw those out interchangeably.

(08:24):
And I think when some people throw it out like that they are interchangeable, but if you want to get down to like the real meaning of it, for me looking at scripture, the Bible purpose is the 30,000-foot general reason all of us are created.

(08:42):
I mean, we’re created by God for God and to be drawn to God, to worship him. Our purpose is to glorify God, to build His Kingdom. There’s those fundamental things that we see all through scripture. So you can call it purpose. You can call it a primary calling.

(08:58):
When I teach on this, I call it a primary calling and a secondary calling. And so the primary or purpose would be that. I wrote down by God, to God, for God, and then a secondary calling, which would be calling, it’s something that everyone, it’s for everyone, it’s for everywhere and it’s in everything, but this is more individualized.

(09:22):
Everyone has a very specific call from God. You can call it a calling, you can call it an assignment. Is the reason God designed you uniquely to what he designed you to do in your workplace, it could be ministry. It could be as a doctor, a teacher, anything, but it’s what He uniquely designed you to do.

(09:44):
So that’s my take on it when I look at scripture is purpose – calling or you can call it primary or secondary, I don’t know.

(09:51):
Oh, that’s so good. I love that. So there you, guys, go, all of our purpose by God for God, to God, secondary calling or assignment for everyone, for everything. I love that. That’s so good.

(10:06):
I wanna talk about what is a calling and I would love your perspective on, I guess when I help these women get clear on their call calling, I’m helping them look at it from a lens of like, I can use these vocational gifts or these spiritual gifts that I have and create a business out of it.

(10:28):
I can actually have a business tree, I can have a business and I can make profit from it and I can make income from it. And I help them kind of take this like direction of a calling and then go explore it. And it’s not like this overnight thing.

(10:43):
And often a year later they have changes or God’s spoken to them or they’ve refined it and redefined it, but it all starts with like a direction. So that’s kind of how I see it, we have these gifts, there’s different pieces of our lives and of what we we’ve gone through.

(10:59):
And it’s created this like direction for your life. And that’s kind of where we start with calling. What does the Bible say? And what do you think that calling actually is? Do you agree with me? What’s your like definition of that?

(11:13):
I 100% agree with you. So I mean, I love studying the life of Peter and if somebody wants to do a study on what we’re talking about right now, he’s the guy. So you look at his ups and his downs. He was constantly needing more clarity from Jesus.

(11:31):
What are we all doing? But then he wanted to know, but what am I doing? Even like, compared to that guy, John’s the one you said you love, but do you love me too? He’s always all over the place with comparing and everything.

(11:43):
And you look at Peter, so I love this. So he’s a fisherman. And we know the story when Jesus calls Peter to first be a disciple, he gets into Peter’s world and he utilizes his vocation. So Jesus preaches a sermon after he gets in Peter’s boat, that he was fishing in.

(11:59):
And then he tells Peter to go out and fish in the deep again, and cast down, cast out his nets again. And he’s stepping into Peter’s world saying I’m not just the Lord of the shore. I’m the Lord of your vocation. I’m the Lord of your occupation. And I’m gonna show you how you can use this in ministry.

(12:16):
And then he says, I want you to be not only a Fisher of fish but a Fisher of men. And so you kind of see how Jesus will use our natural inclination, the direction that our life has been going, like what you were saying, all the things that culminate into who we are, what I love about it is Jesus steps into our lives.

(12:34):
And he says, I’ve built you to this point, the ups, the downs, the brokenness, the wholeness, and you’re here now. And I wanna step into your life.

(12:42):
And I wanna use who you are now and direct you, your gifts, talents, brokenness, all those things and guide you into your next steps.

(12:51):
So what about when people will say, I don’t have one, I don’t have a calling. I feel no direction. I feel purposeless. How do they begin to hear from God in this area? Like tactically and prayerfully? What do you think those steps are?

(13:12):
Cuz I know how frustrating…, I’ve been there. I’m sure you’ve been there where we’re like, what am I doing here. Help me.

(13:22):
I mean, I can’t even tell you. It’s so funny now looking back on it, because I’ve asked that question literally, as I was in my calling, being a pastor, I mean, which is we all get to those places, but when I’m researching this in scripture, there’s so much of this, what I love about God and calling, and as you discover this.

(13:45):
And it’s kind of, again, what I just said about the Peter thing, but I love how God steps into our world and every story that you see in scripture it comes back to a few questions we can ask ourselves, if we’re thinking I don’t have purpose, I don’t have calling.

(13:59):
We compare ourselves to other people. Why doesn’t my life look like that? Why doesn’t my podcast look like that? All those things. And there’s a few questions and I can kind of rattle through a few of the questions that I kind of coach people through to ask themselves. Is that cool? Can I just jump into that?

(14:14):
That’s great. Yes. I’d love that.

(14:15):
If you’re feeling that, I think the first thing you’ve gotta do, is just to ask yourself what you are specifically passionate about. Because everyone, even in our worst seasons, we’re passionate about something, or you could word it like what excites you?

(14:30):
It could be music, it could be art, this isn’t the only factor in discovering your calling, but it absolutely has to be an indicator. It could be, are you passionate about education, teaching? Are you passionate about empowering people? Are you passionate about sports, finance?

(14:46):
All those kinds of things, because I genuinely believe according to scripture that God gives us the desires of our heart. And what’s interesting is a lot of people interpret that scripture as whatever my heart desires, that’s what God is going to give me.

(15:01):
But it’s really the reverse of that. What it’s saying is God gave you the desires of your heart. Obviously, the ones that aren’t sinful, but he gave you those desires. And so, focus on those, let those grow and thrive.

(15:15):
So, I think you’re a good example of this, for instance, I mean, you look at what you’re doing with a podcast and you’re passionate about helping people succeed. You’re passionate about empowering women and now men and you’re passionate about that. And I can tell, I mean, you are not in this for what’s in it for you.

(15:33):
You really love being a platform for other people. And so you have known that for a long time. You get into this business and you start doing this to truly help people. And lo and behold, now you’re in your calling.

(15:47):
And if somebody would’ve asked you that 10 years ago, there’s no way you probably would’ve guessed this. But you had to eventually say, what am I passionate about? Where does God wanna meet me?

(15:55):
And I think that so many people, I think that’s a good first question to start with. Do you have anything with that?

(16:01):
Yeah, I do. When I look at that and we ask ourselves, what are we passionate about? I think it’s funny because, and I know this is true for you too, Dustin. When I look at what I’m doing now, and I would’ve said, what are you passionate about 10 years ago? The clues are there.

(16:18):
I’m passionate about leading people, entrepreneurship, encouraging women to be courageous, whatever, when they speak or whatnot, but my path… So the passions were there, but the way that I was putting them into practice and play was not exactly what God had in mind.

(16:39):
But if I hadn’t tried those things and spent time in the passion work, He couldn’t pave the way. You gotta spend time in the passion work to pave the way because same for you. I know you have a story on public speaking. You felt the call and maybe even the thing you’re passionate about is not the thing you’re good at, at first.

(17:03):
Yep. It’s true. I mean, honestly, like that’s another one of the questions, honestly. I mean, is this a cool segue to go into that?

(17:09):
Yeah.

(17:09):
Because, what you said about me with public speaking, my passion growing up was always, even as a teenager, I mean, I was not even close to a perfect teenager, but even as a teenager though, I loved God with all my heart.

(17:21):
And I was so passionate looking at my friends, just thinking why isn’t the word of God sinking into them like it is me. And it wasn’t that there was anything special about me. It was that my dad was a pastor and is a pastor.

(17:33):
And was awesome at learning how to articulate that to me individually. So my passion started growing, how can I take the word of God and present it in a way where people can receive it? But my biggest, greatest fear was public speaking.

(17:47):
So, one of the other questions that I encourage people to ask is what are you afraid of? So not only what are you passionate about but what are you afraid of? Because so many people, I’ve heard this a million times and it’s not ungodly, but it’s just not completely accurate.

(18:02):
When people say I’ve been praying and praying about God’s will, and I have a peace about this therefor it’s God’s will. I think having a peace about something could slightly be an indicator of God’s will.

(18:16):
But what we mostly see in scripture is God has us walk through doorways of fear, because when you can say, this is what I’m a passionate about, but the handle of the vehicle God’s gonna give me to walk that out. I’m not good at that yet. There’s a lot of unknowns.

(18:32):
It’s a big financial investment. For me, it was, I’m horrible at public speaking. How am I gonna do this? And so you walk through that fear and then when you get on the other side of it, now I can give God glory and I’m not sitting here saying, it’s all about me and all that.

(18:49):
So I think that’s important that you’re gonna hit one of those fear walls or doorways that you’re gonna have to decide. Am I gonna walkthrough or am I not?

(19:00):
Wow. Doorways of fear. Can we have a t-shirt? I think we need a t-shirt.

(19:08):
Let’s do it.

(19:08):
That’s so good. And, oh, man, this is like just such wisdom for all of you listening, because you have the desire and you have the passion and maybe it’s even like been planted in your heart, but to actually make it happen, there will be a door of fear. Period.

(19:27):
Every single time, when I heard like leave corporate and be an entrepreneur, doorway of fear, when I heard like, oh, you’re gonna go and be a network marketer. And that’s what I did for a while, door fear. And then, oh, you’re gonna start a podcast, huge door of fear.

(19:43):
Who am I? And no one will listen and I don’t know if I can speak and then you’re gonna speak, oh, door of fear. There’s always a door of fear. And I think in my opinion, and in my past, the more you think about the door of fear, the more you think about the journey to get to the door of fear, the bigger the door becomes.

(20:00):
Absolutely.

(20:01):
Versus like, okay, I know there’s door fear. I know it’s here, but I’m just gonna go ahead and kick it open and run through it because the second you get through it, it’s like, it just completely diminishes. And it wasn’t even as big as you made it out to be. What has been your experience?

(20:17):
100%. And so I mean, every single time. My wife and I were just talking about this the other day, I mean, she has the same story. She’s a worship leader and we co-pastor our church together and there’s so many things she has to overcome.

(20:31):
She’s an amazing communicator, but she’s only ever preached five sermons. And so her first sermon was just a couple years ago, here. But it was a massive doorway of fear. And then, but that’s her new season of calling is preaching that way.

(20:49):
And it’s every sphere of life, pastoring, teaching, doing podcasts, being a stay-at-home mom or dad, or whatever the season is, there’s always gonna be fear. And people have asked me, so is peace at all a part of the equation.

(21:02):
I think if it’s just a slight adjustment in how we think. So when we’re saying, God me a peace about this, we’ve gotta really focus that on. I think we can ask God, according to scripture, to give us peace, found in the resolution, being resolute about this is what I’m supposed to do. I’m resolute.

(21:20):
And I have peace in that, but understanding it’s not gonna be peaceful necessarily on the other side of that for a while because you’re stepping into your calling and we have an enemy that doesn’t like that. And we have a world that doesn’t like that, and it’s not gonna be easy. It’s gonna be a risk, like what you were saying.

(21:38):
Wow. I have just like a sidebar that hopefully doesn’t take us too far. But do you believe, as we’re stepping up, we’re coming to the doors of fear, maybe we’ve already gone through a few of them?

That the enemy does everything in his power, whether it be spiritual warfare or putting extra bumps in the road like to make it seem even harder, or like we’re not on the right path?

(22:01):
And then if so, how do we discern through what’s just hard as we’re growing in our calling versus what’s like derailing us versus, oh, no, God’s telling me not to keep going. How do we just turn through what the hard parts even are? Or who they’re from, I guess.

(22:21):
So this is so interesting. We actually had a staff meeting this morning and I taught on that exact thing, which is so fascinating. So, I think what happens, we gotta put a lot more weight on the beginning of the journey. I think.

(22:41):
So I think you’re never gonna know the complete outcome, but I think before you start, that’s why it’s so important when you’re gonna make a big decision like that. Yes, risk is always involved.

(22:50):
But you’ve gotta know, I think for Christians, we throw out the God said, I feel like God’s saying, God told me, so fast. And then when we get halfway into it, and then we have, we finally may be back out of something, or maybe we make an adjustment, then it’s either we didn’t hear God or did God lie.

(23:11):
So I think we’ve gotta be a little bit more careful on the front end to say, okay, how I’m gonna make it through this with all the bumps, ups and downs is remembering the beginning of I was so resolute about this. I knew.

(23:24):
And isn’t it weird and cool how much emphasis the Bible puts on remembering is the whole purpose of communion because we forget so fast when God says something we’re like, yes, He did. And then these huge, we have attacks from the enemy, huge setbacks, and then we start questioning and people did it all through the Bible.

(23:46):
And so I think going back to, and then, one of these other questions, it pertains to this again and it doesn’t derail us at all, but how I find, how I can be resolute in my decisions is that I, one of the questions I have is who’s on your godly counsel or who’s on your counsel?

(24:02):
Because when I’m about to make a big decision like this, I’ll give you an example for us in our context of pastoring.

About five years ago, Mandy and I were praying about what our next step was. And, the board members here, our elders, were talking to us about, Hey, are you guys going to pastor the church as your dad is transitioning to retire and going to the next stage of life?

(24:28):
And we were really praying about, do we stay and pastor this church, or is God calling us to plant another church in another city? Because I kind of have a pioneering spirit, and it was hard. I’ve always had those two doors open.

(24:42):
And so what’s kept me going, pastoring, we just became pastors six weeks before the pandemic started. So, six months into the pandemic I’m like, Mandy, what are we doing? Mandy is my wife’s name. So, it’s just crazy.

(24:58):
So what brought me back to keeping me through all the ups and downs is going back to, how did I make this decision? I made this decision because I went to God, both of us did. We fasted, we prayed, we knew it was here. We’re staying in Albuquerque.

(25:14):
This is the church we’re gonna pastor because when we say yes, our yes has to be yes. And our no has to be no. And then I would go to my godly council. So it would be my dad, a couple of other pastor friends, a couple of our elders. And we sought God for months and months.

(25:31):
And when we all came to the same conclusion, that’s how I knew. So when I’ve hit rock bottom a few times, with anxiety in the pandemic and division in the church and people, all that stuff, what’s kept me going is, you know what? I’m gonna remember.

(25:48):
I’m gonna remember that season where we went through the right steps and I know this is what God has called us to do. That’s a long answer for a short question, but that’s for me, when I see scripture, that’s kind of what I feel like God’s pointing us to.

(26:02):
That’s so good because it’s so easy to get in the emotion of the ‘right now’ and the, oh, no, we’re in a pandemic and no one’s gonna come to church, and our attendance is down and what are we doing?

(26:14):
And the political stuff that I’m sure every pastor went through, dealing with all of that to you could have sat in that and made the anxiety grow and made the doorway of fear expand and made all of these limiting beliefs about your purpose come into play.

(26:30):
When in reality, it was already spoken over you like, yes, the calling was absolutely clear. And I love this concept of going back to what you heard. Go back to what was spoken over you, go back to the calling when you didn’t know-how.

(26:47):
Cause I think sometimes the how derails us, it’s like, you know what it is, but because you don’t know the how, you question the calling altogether and we don’t have to worry about the how, so remember the beginning. That’s so great.

(27:00):
And then who’s on your council? How do you find people to add to your council? I just think of my women who are trying to build these businesses and they’re in motherhood still, and they’re maybe working partially or maybe they feel really alone in this time.

(27:20):
Like how do you find, I don’t know if you have any tips here and then look to your next question. How do you add people to your council?

(27:26):
If you’re lucky enough to have a good church community near you or you’re able to go in person, I think that’s a great start. It’s always hard. It just not like you can walk into church and start interviewing people to be on your godly council.

(27:40):
So, I think over time, you’ve been in a small group for six months to a year and then there’s maybe an older lady who, for whatever reason, it’s kind of latched on to you and keeps pouring into you. And then maybe you reciprocate that with, you know what, I’m gonna take her to coffee.

(27:59):
And then all of a sudden you develop a friendship and you just find out this is a godly person, not perfect, but godly. And then I’ve done that before where I’ll ask a guy to say, after I’ve developed a friendship with him, I primarily look for older people just because the Bible consistently points us to older generations for wisdom.

(28:15):
Sure.

(28:15):
But that’s what I do, Hey, if I ever need to, can I come to you for some advice on this or whatever, and that’s one, but honestly, whether people are saved or not, when they’re your parents, I think it’s important to always glean at least something.

(28:31):
Because when the Bible talks about parents, however old they are, however, lost they are, the Bible doesn’t ever really give caveats to dishonoring them if they’re not Christians. And so my wife and I are firm believers of even if they’re not godly, it’s important to have parents there.

(28:50):
I know some people have, I’m not saying you have to go restore some abusive relationship or anything, but even if they’re not Christians though, and you know they love you and they’re for you. I still think that’s an important component.

(29:00):
Grandparents, a random friend that you have, it can start small with, Hey, what, what do you think about, we’re thinking about switching our kid from this school to that school. Can you give me some advice on that?

(29:14):
It doesn’t have to be like this grand purpose of life question to start off the bat, but yes it takes time and you’ve gotta be careful, but I think that there’s, there’s a few things you asked me originally. There’s a few things I think you can look for in people. Can I rattle off a few real quick?

(29:29):
Sure.

(29:30):
I think that you just don’t look for perfect people. They’re gonna make mistakes, but people that have been consistently good decision-makers, you’ve seen them make some bigger decisions and you say, you know what? That was a good decision. They’re godly in lifestyle, godly in words.

(29:48):
Again, not perfect, but they’re just consist in those things, they’ve been consistently invested in you. They are close enough to you-ish, to know your strengths and weaknesses on the biggest decisions of your life. I think the people are gonna have to know a little bit more about you to be able to give you good advice.

(30:05):
And I think one of the most important things is, at least one or two people who, if they looked at you and just said, I, after praying about it, not off of knee jerk reaction, but I really just don’t think this is a good idea.

(30:18):
I think we need to have the wisdom enough to, even if it’s not a permanent no, for it to cause us to pause, wait, pull back and say, if these people feel this strongly against this, it doesn’t mean Satan’s using them, it just might mean I might need to pause for a second and take a breather and reevaluate.

(30:39):
Yeah. Those are such great. Thank you for adding that, just cuz they’re probably sitting there going, I want some mentors and I can think of people in my life that started exactly this way. No lie, Dustin with Hi, should we switch our kids to a different school?

(30:53):
No kidding. That’s one of the biggest questions people are asking right now.

(30:56):
I know. And then those amazing mentors, I think they’re there, sometimes we just don’t see them. I think a lot of times they’re already in your life, you just haven’t said, oh wow, this is a person who’s like a consistent, godly mentor in my life and yes, church community. So great.

(31:12):
So, so far we’ve covered asking yourself what you’re passionate about. What are the fears? What are you afraid of? That really is huge, I’ve never thought of that one before. And I just love it. Third one. Who’s on your council and then this concept of remembering.

(31:30):
What else? Is there any other piece to calling, finding it, figuring it out?

(31:35):
So, I’ve got two more. I’ll hit them quick. One of the questions is what frustrates you. I think a lot of people get frustrated at things in life and they expect other people to solve them.

(31:46):
But the things sometimes we can get most frustrated at when we see them, it might be God prompting us, giving us a holy discontentment, and saying that might be me that needs to solve that. I talk a lot about in our city, I hate the fact that our child wellbeing in our city and our state is so bad.

(32:03):
So, I was so frustrated about that for so long. And all of a sudden it hit me, well, maybe I’m supposed to help solve that problem. It could be education, government policies, things in your church, things in your family. So you can analyze things that frustrate you and think, could this be a component and a part of my calling?

(32:19):
The example I’ve used is David and Goliath. David goes into the battlefield, sees Goliath. He was mad. Everybody else was afraid and his frustration caused him to step up and fulfill his calling. So, I think frustration’s a good one too.

(32:33):
Oh, I love that. That’s really great. I just am thinking to myself if there was anything that frustrated me. Oh yeah, definitely. I think that helps too. It helps fine-tune the calling, for sure. Because maybe it’s looking at a deeper level of refining your calling.

(32:52):
So, for example, me as a podcaster and starting this business and doing all of these pieces, l could help women grow in any way.

(33:00):
But I was frustrated with the addiction to social media, the constant 24/7, like battling this busy or this need to have your phone in your hand. And so that frustration really solidified for me that podcasting was the way that I was gonna help them grow.

(33:17):
That’s so good. I love what you said, I just took a note on that, when you said refining because I think the frustration thing even after you get into your calling, just letting that frustration, any new ones that come up too, help refine it and it can even take you on the journey within your calling.

(33:33):
So I think that’s great. And then the last question I will do it fast. I feel like I’m talking too much.

(33:37):
You’re doing great. I love it.

(33:41):
The last one is what’s in your hand and I think this is a really cool one because God specifically asked Moses, when Moses was lost, he had been exiled. He ran after he found out who he was, killed an Egyptian and he had been in exile for a long time and he was a shepherd, and one day he’s tending sheep.

(34:00):
And if you are familiar with the story, you know there’s the story of the burning bush. So, God starts speaking to him, says I want you to go back and tell my people, tell the Israelites that I’ve sent you, and then go tell Pharaoh to let my people go.

(34:14):
And Moses is arguing with Him saying, what if the people don’t believe that you sent me? What if they don’t? And so God’s response to Moses it’s a yes in that question, what’s in your hand? And Moses looks in his hand and he’s holding a shepherd staff and we don’t have good context on that today.

(34:31):
But a shepherd staff back then would’ve been a symbol of shame, especially for him because it was a symbol of his exile. It was a symbol of what he had done. He was a prince and now he’s the lowest of the low occupation, a shepherd. He’s poor, all those things.

(34:45):
And so God points, not at a skillset of this time, he points at something from his past that God wants to use. Cause as we decrease, he increases and it was a shepherd staff.

(34:57):
So I think for a lot of people, the question of what’s in your hand, could be a talent, it could be a gifting. I think that definitely, obviously has to be a part of the conversation, but I think a lot of times people overlook what they would perceive as weaknesses, they would overlook mental health battles.

(35:14):
I had mentioned in a sermon one time or several times that I’ve battled anxiety and depression for most of my life. And I used to be so ashamed of it even in sermons.

(35:24):
But once I started talking about it, anytime I mention it, that is the topic where people come up to me the most in our foyer or write emails saying thank you. And something I was ashamed of has now become one of the greatest tools where I can help people overcome it.

(35:40):
People that have stories of divorce, and brokenness and then rebuilding, they don’t have to be perfectly happy yet, but they’re in the process of rebuilding. That’s common ground for other people who are going through hard times.

(35:53):
And so I think sometimes we can overlook those and I think that God wants to use that stuff a lot more than we think.

(35:59):
Yes, one of the pillars, when we’re going through calling work when I’m teaching it is trials exactly the same because your trial is someone else’s triumph. Your trial that you’ve already overcome, they’re still in it and maybe you haven’t overcome it, but you’re farther along in the process than someone else.

(36:21):
And you’re that person that they’ve been praying for. I love that. And also as soon as something comes, you let it come to light. It has more power over you and so you using, oh my gosh, my anxiety and my depression and this is embarrassing. Or I shouldn’t talk about it.

(36:38):
I’m sure the second that you finally were through that the doorway on this one, I’m gonna tell everyone about it. Everyone else goes, oh wow, like I’m not alone. Pastor Dustin’s dealt with this as well. And it just makes them feel normal. And it makes people come together and really work together to get through the hard stuff.

(36:59):
100%. And it also helps me break free of how binding anxiety and depression can be. So the more you use it as a tool, the less it can be used as a tool against you. And so I think, you either use it or it uses you, and I think that’s a huge part of our testimony and overcoming and a huge part of our calling.

(37:20):
Wow, it’s been so great. So as people go through these five questions and they’re gathering all this information, what do you say to someone who’s, okay, I have direction, I’ve written something down, I have this idea or this concept, how would you say that they actively activate walking out a calling? At least just where do they get started?

(37:43):
Your podcast?

(37:46):
I did not pay him to say that.

(37:49):
No, but I’m telling you it is true. I mean, it’s something like this because where most people get lost is they don’t have the infrastructure, know-how, they don’t have the tools to take an idea and walk it out into fruition.

(38:03):
So I do think partnership and collaboration and being willing to be humble enough to say, I’ve got an idea. I wanna start something. And I wasn’t teasing really but something like you and having a coach help them. But I think that’s huge, it’s so practical.

(38:19):
It’s probably not like the magical answer people are wanting, but we get so bogged down in with this idea that we never really walk it out.

And I think that it’s gonna come down to partnership, training, coaching, and the willingness to take that first step off, I’m gonna take a little bit of a risk after I know this is for sure what God’s calling me to do, at least right now, I’m gonna take a risk, I’m gonna get some help and start developing a plan.

(38:46):
That’s really great. And then I have one last question. I’ve, I’ve been asked this before and it just came up as you were talking for me to ask you. I’ve been asked Stefanie, is it possible to have a godly business or have this calling that I’m living out that’s God-centered without ever talking about God or my faith?

(39:09):
I think, yes and no. So I think so much of being a witness in building the kingdom of God is just being godly. Because if someone is, and again, I’m gonna say this a bunch, but I’m not talking about being perfect. I’m not talking about that.

(39:25):
But just if someone in their everyday life in business on the one hand, when I say yes, it’s possible to do that. It’s possible in the sense of, if you’re being the light, if you’re being godly, you’re gonna be so different than everyone else. It’s gonna be a magnet to where people are gonna be curious, what is different about you?

(39:44):
I hear that you have problems in your marriage, but why are you able to overcome what I can’t overcome in our marriage or things like that. There’s a foundation. So I think on one hand, yes. But I do eventually think their personal conversations happen, have to happen.

(40:03):
But I also know that with so many businesses, let’s say you’re a teacher, you’re bound by law. You’re not able to just stand up in front of your class and start witnessing.

But I think that out of raw curiosity from students or parents, and parent-teacher conferences or you see somebody out in life, or you have your own Facebook and you just randomly post that you were at church that day, all of those kinds of things, they’re tiny, but they can matter and spark curiosity.

(40:30):
So I think being godly is the number one thing because it provides a way of being different. And eventually, that will lead toward curiosity, questions, comments, Hey, what do you think about that? And then it might open up for more conversations.

(40:45):
That’s really awesome. And I think really where people struggle is they feel like, oh, because I wanna lead a God-centered business, I have to know theology, or I have to preach on the podcast. And what pastor Dustin just said is, allow God to work through you and bring the right people to you.

(41:03):
And there’s your opportunity. And so I think there’s a lot of permission in that to just be who you are and show up the best way you know how, and just lead with this godly example, and then God will do the rest.

(41:19):
The pressure that people feel, I get it all the time, the pressure that people feel to know theology, to know life, as we grow in our walk with God sure, yes, we need to grow in right understanding. But the pressure that people feel is so unnecessary when it comes to those kinds of conversations.

(41:36):
Because the greatest gift you can give the world when someone asks a question that we don’t know is just the confidence in saying, actually, I don’t know but, I’ll take a look at it. But I think the greatest witness we can have is just being different.

(41:51):
And then having the simple testimony of this is who I was before I met Christ. I am far from perfect, but I’m far from who I was, and this is who I am now. And it’s really impacting my marriage and it’s impacting the way I raise my kids. There is a huge difference. I think it’s as simple as that. And then people are curious.

(42:09):
This has been so amazing. And I know that’s gonna be so helpful for so many of the listeners, any last bit of encouragement or words of wisdom that you have for those who are trying to just finally hear from God on what is their calling and how they can partner that with the purpose that He has for all of us.

(42:32):
And then lastly, where does everybody come to connect with you, pastor Dustin? We’ve got our church websites and those pieces and maybe you wanna talk a bit about the podcast that you, guys, are launching next month.

(42:44):
I think as far as the calling next step, everybody wants to know what God’s will is. God’s will is something that’s not elusive, He’s not hiding. I think you start in His word and you make sure your idea does not contradict his word.

(43:00):
You pray, ask the spirit to guide you, the holy spirit to say yes or no and then you go to godly counsel. I call those the three security checkpoints of God’s will. So God’s word, God’s spirit, and the godly counsel in your life. Then once you have that, you have resolution.

(43:16):
My biggest encouragement right now, what I’m seeing with so many people is people are exhausted, they’re defeated. We’ve gone through such a rough time, the last couple of years. So many people are in transition. We’re just tired.

(43:28):
And so my encouragement would be, there’s so many times in scripture where God just says remain, stay faithful, steadfast, rooted, remain.

I feel like the people who are going to win and succeed in this season are the people who are willing to stop this consistent uprooting and re-routing, but just staying rooted and remaining and staying faithful. And I wanna encourage people with that.

(43:54):
And then, I pastor a church called Citizen Church and the name just comes from the idea that we’re citizens of heaven and our identity’s there before it’s here. And so that’s the name of our church, but our website is just citizen.church.

(44:09):
Every Sunday morning, if you wanna tune in, you can find us online at our website, Facebook, YouTube, you just Google citizen church, it’s singular citizen. And, yeah, we’re launching a podcast next month and I think we finally landed on a name, we’re finishing all the, I guess, trademark, all that kind of stuff right now.

(44:33):
We’re hearing back from our attorney very soon on that, but I can say it, I think we’re naming it Co-church and the reason why we’re going with Co-church is we’re also launching a church network called Co-church. And so the whole thing is about unifying the church, but not just unifying churches, but unifying people.

(44:52):
But it’s gonna be simple. It’s gonna be discussions about current cultural topics, it’ll be theology, but again, it goes back to what I feel my calling is, it’s how can we, my two big things that I stand for, how can we unite churches and how can we grow people to where they can get the understanding they want from the word of God without being made to feel like they are dumb or they can’t know things.

(45:17):
So, that’s what the whole podcast is gonna be, great conversations, some light teaching, but also just kind of advancing the kingdom. Co-church, be looking for it. It’ll be out soon as possible.

(45:30):
So excited it about that. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, pastor Dustin.

(45:35):
Thank you so much for having me.